Payments leaders do it all—they’re consultants, builders, and strategists, working across product, finance, risk, and customer experience to shape business success. From designing seamless payment flows to preventing fraud and optimizing checkout, their impact goes far beyond transactions.
In this episode of Payments Unfiltered, André Moeller, Elli's Payments, Risk, and Fraud Professional Lead, explores how payments teams collaborate across the business, why their role is more critical than ever, and how a well-designed payment strategy can drive growth, reduce friction, and keep customers happy.
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Theo Spyrides: Hello, and welcome to Payments Unfiltered. Today, I’m joined by André Moeller, the Payments, Risk, and Fraud Professional Lead at Elli.
Elli is part of the Volkswagen Group, providing energy and charging solutions for individuals and businesses.
In this episode, we’ll discuss strategies for setting up payments correctly—defining the optimal payment flow, selecting the correct payment methods, influencing business strategy, and, most importantly, keeping the customer at the center of it all. Let’s get into the conversation.
Welcome, André! To begin with, what are the first steps in setting up payments for a new business?
André Moeller: Great question. When setting up payments in a new environment, the first and most important thing is to start from the product side.
What does that mean? Well, you need to consider key factors like:
- Average basket size: How much are customers typically spending?
- Target audience: Who are your customers, and what payment methods do they prefer?
Different generations have different payment habits. Older generations tend to favor credit cards, while younger generations are likelier to use PayPal or alternative methods. Gen Z, for example, prefers options like TikTok Pay, WeChat Pay, and open banking solutions.
A few examples from my career illustrate this well. I started in the gaming industry, where average transaction values were relatively low—under €20. Because most players in that space didn’t have credit cards, they relied on alternative payment methods like PaySafe or PayPal.
Later, I managed payments for a DIY retailer, where the average transaction size was €300–€400. The customer base there consisted of homeowners and DIY enthusiasts, who were likelier to use credit cards than PayPal or other alternatives.
So, to set up payments effectively, you need to understand your product, customer base, and average basket size. Once you know these factors, you can design a suitable payment strategy.
Theo Spyrides: The key takeaway is to understand your customer. Once you have a clear picture of who they are and how they shop, you can define your payment strategy accordingly.
André Moeller: Exactly.
Theo Spyrides: I’d love to dive deeper into this. How does average order value influence how you design the customer journey?
André Moeller: It plays a significant role, especially when considering different types of transactions.
For example, at Elli, we handle two primary payment flows:
- Customer-Initiated Transactions (CIT): This applies to our e-commerce store, where customers buy EV chargers. They add items to their basket, choose a payment method and complete checkout. The system then verifies whether the payment is authorized or declined.
- Merchant-Initiated Transactions (MIT): This applies to EV charging. In this case, the customer doesn’t actively make a payment; instead, we receive charging data and automatically process the transaction on their behalf.
This distinction is crucial because it impacts payment structure. With MITs, the timing and frequency of charges matter.
For example, customers driving from Germany to Spain in 18 hours may have five or six charging sessions daily. Each session generates a separate charge request sent to the customer’s payment method.
This creates two potential issues:
- Credit limits: If the customer receives multiple charges on their card in a short period, they may exceed their limit.
- Fraud detection: Issuing banks might flag the repeated transactions as suspicious, leading to declines.
These factors must be considered when designing a payment flow that ensures smooth customer experiences while minimizing failed transactions.
Theo Spyrides: Absolutely, that makes complete sense. Each business is different—it’s not a one-size-fits-all approach. You need to understand the customer journey and tailor the payment experience.
Are there any common pitfalls to avoid early on when building a payment system?
André Moeller: Definitely. As I mentioned earlier, you need to consider the product you’re selling, how you’re capturing payments, and the risks involved.
If you’re starting from scratch, many potential pitfalls can be avoided by thinking things through a bit more. One common mistake I’ve seen repeatedly is that businesses focus purely on their product or vertical but overlook payments, risk, and fraud.
Payments teams can provide tremendous value in planning—from setting up payment flows to designing fraud prevention strategies and even structuring checkout experiences. However, companies often fail to involve payment experts early enough.
Another key point is that payments are inherently cross-functional. They are not just a finance responsibility; they touch every part of the business—product, finance, accounting, customer service, and more. That’s why payment teams must collaborate across departments to ensure everything runs smoothly.
Theo Spyrides: That’s a really interesting way of looking at payments—as a cross-functional discipline that spans the entire business cycle. Would you say payments teams are more like consultants, builders, or both?
André Moeller: Both. Absolutely both.
In our daily work, we act as consultants because we constantly monitor the market for new regulations, emerging payment methods, and potential fraud risks. We need to ensure that our systems are protected from fraud and that we optimize payment performance.
But beyond that, we also significantly impact product design, customer experience, and even legal and compliance. For example, if a customer calls support because they received a dunning letter for a failed payment, the support agent needs to understand why it happened. Was it a credit card limit issue? Did the card expire? Was there a technical failure with PayPal? Payments teams provide the data and insights to efficiently help customer service resolve those issues.
Similarly, we support product teams in understanding the correct payment flows for different transaction types. Finance teams rely on us to track key metrics, such as the number of failed payments and the number that were successfully settled, and what that means for revenue reconciliation.
It’s a constant back-and-forth, where we bring insights from the market and regulations to help different teams make better decisions—whether that’s adjusting terms and conditions, updating invoicing emails, or fine-tuning checkout flows. Payments are not just about processing transactions but about shaping the entire customer and business experience.
Theo Spyrides: And it sounds like a high level of collaboration is required based on what you’ve just shared. Do you think that kind of friction ever becomes unhealthy? Especially as the payments function scales along with the business.
André Moeller: Definitely. If I had to guess, I’d say that more than 50% of communication failures in payments happen because of a lack of clarity—who’s responsible for what, who has access to what information, and how different teams interact.
One of the biggest challenges is that many departments forget about payments, risk, and fraud until it’s too late. Just last week, for example, a colleague called me with a bunch of questions about terminals, technical suppliers, and other payment-related topics. It was the first time he’d contacted me for guidance, and I was genuinely happy he did. Because instead of making a decision in isolation, he allowed us to consult, advise, and set him up for success before he moved forward. That’s the kind of proactive collaboration that should be happening across teams.
Theo Spyrides: That makes a lot of sense. And I think one of the most obvious touchpoints between payments and product teams is at checkout. So, how do you design the optimal checkout experience? Especially when trying to create a seamless journey for the customer.
André Moeller: There’s no single right or wrong answer to what makes the perfect checkout. It all comes back to what we discussed earlier—it depends on the product.
First, you must distinguish between physical and digital products and determine which payment flow applies.
- Customer-Initiated Transactions (CIT): The customer actively selects items, adds them to a basket, and checks out, triggering an authorization request.
- Merchant-Initiated Transactions (MIT): The transaction happens after the fact, like in EV charging, where the payment is processed automatically after a charging session.
Each model has its own checkout experience.
In e-commerce, the checkout process must be as fast and frictionless as possible. The customer has already spent time browsing, selecting products, and building their basket. The last thing you want is for them to get stuck at checkout and abandon their purchase.
It's different in a charging or subscription model. Here, the customer goes through an onboarding process—entering personal details, choosing a tariff, and setting up payment details—before they can even start using the service. The goal is to make this process seamless so customers can begin charging without frustration.
Regardless of the use case, simplicity is key. A common mistake is overloading the customer with too many payment options or unnecessary details.
Theo Spyrides: That’s a great point. So, on that note—how many payment methods are too many?
André Moeller: It all comes back to the same principle—it depends on the product, the customer, and even the country you operate in.
For example:
- In China, WeChat Pay and Alipay are essential. That’s two key payment methods.
- In Europe, you’ll typically see credit cards, PayPal, and American Express (which I count as a credit card).
- In the U.S., most people use credit cards, but PayPal and Apple Pay (which is linked to credit cards) are also popular.
The sweet spot is four to five payment methods. That’s enough to cover customer preferences without creating unnecessary friction.
You risk overwhelming the customer if you go beyond that—say, six, seven, or more. If they have to scroll through a long list of options, it adds cognitive load and increases the likelihood of checkout abandonment. The goal should always be speed and simplicity.
So, regardless of the product, country, or whether it’s a CIT or MIT flow, I’d say the ideal limit is four to five payment methods. Anything beyond that creates unnecessary complexity.
Theo Spyrides: How do you decide which payment methods to offer at checkout? You mentioned regional considerations—like WeChat Pay not making sense in the UK due to lower usage—but what about different payment methods? How do you build a payment portfolio for each region?
André Moeller: The chicken-and-egg principle often comes into play, but not always.
Take WeChat Pay and Alipay in France, for example. Luxury brands like Cartier and Louis Vuitton may not have a huge volume of online shoppers from Asia or even in-store customers from that region. However, they risk losing those high-value customers entirely if they don’t offer WeChat Pay or Alipay.
So, sometimes, you need to offer a payment method even if the volume is low—because those customers won’t buy without it.
On the other hand, we’ve seen payment methods fail due to this exact dilemma. A great example is PayDirect in Germany, which shut down at the end of last year. It struggled because customers wanted to know where to use it, while merchants wanted to know how many would adopt it. Neither side committed, so it never gained traction.
In e-commerce, checking market adoption and footprint is a good way to evaluate payment methods. However, we have more flexibility in charging.
For example, in e-commerce, my partner might use PayPal one day, Klarna the next, and a credit card another time—it depends on the purchase. However, in EV charging, customers choose their payment method upfront during onboarding and rarely change it. So, we only get one chance to present the right payment options.
In e-commerce, merchants have multiple opportunities to introduce new payment methods whenever a customer returns to the store. This allows for experimentation—for example, new methods like Vero from EPI (European Payments Initiative) are emerging in Germany and Europe, and merchants can test them over time.
So, in some cases, I reject the chicken-and-egg principle—sometimes, as a merchant, you have to take a risk and be a first mover with a new payment method.
Theo Spyrides: What are the benefits for merchants taking that first-mover approach?
André Moeller: In most cases? Marketing money. But beyond that, there are strategic advantages.
Take Vero from EPI—this could be a good opportunity for merchants to get ahead. Why?
- It has backing from the European Commission and banks, which means strong support.
- It’s positioned as a European alternative to dominant U.S. payment brands.
- It aligns with increasing regulatory and data sovereignty concerns in Europe.
I don’t see it as a replacement for PayPal but as an alternative to U.S.-dominated payment methods.
This matters because we’re in a highly political era regarding payments. Look at the U.S. approach—the country has a strong “America First” strategy that could impact international business, including payments.
This raises a critical question for European merchants: Should we rely on U.S. payment providers for everything, or should we build competitive European alternatives to maintain control over customer data and payment flows?
That’s why I believe that, in some cases, being a first mover isn’t just about payments—it’s about long-term strategic positioning. However, it also carries risks, and not every business should rush to adopt a new payment method without a clear business case.
Theo Spyrides: And as a merchant, how much does cost factor into the decision when selecting payment methods?
André Moeller: Cost is always a key consideration. Every vertical, every product team, always asks about payment costs—because at the end of the day, every transaction has a fee, and the lower the fees, the better for the business.
If a payment method is expensive, especially for some U.S.-based brands that charge higher fees, and there’s an alternative with lower costs, that can be a strong reason to encourage customers to switch. In some cases, it might even justify being an early adopter of a new payment method if it helps bring costs down in the long run.
Theo Spyrides: That makes sense. So, as a merchant, I need to consider customer conversion, coverage for different customer segments, payment flows, and costs—that’s a lot of factors! How would you advise merchants to navigate this journey and ensure they make the right decisions? And how do they validate that their decisions were the right ones?
André Moeller: I always start with process design—mapping the entire end-to-end payment journey.
This means looking at:
- How the customer enters the shop or service
- The onboarding process
- The payment process itself
- What happens in the event of a failed payment
- The dunning (payment reminder) and debt collection process
Businesses can uncover gaps and optimize where necessary by making this process visible. Often, you find things you didn’t consider before—maybe you need an extra risk check during onboarding or lifecycle monitoring to prevent fraud.
For example, let’s say a payment capture fails. What happens next?
- Do you have an automatic retry process in place?
- Does your ERP system send dunning letters to the customer?
- After a certain number of failed attempts, do you hand over the case to a debt collection agency?
By visualizing the entire payment journey, you can refine it step by step, whether it’s improving fraud checks, optimizing failed payment handling, or selecting the right mix of internal and external tools.
And this also influences payment selection. For example:
If a merchant offers subscription-based payments, they need a strong dunning and retry process. If they sell physical goods, they might not even attempt a dunning process—if the payment fails, the item won’t be shipped.
That’s why process design is so important—it helps merchants make data-driven decisions about which payment methods to use, where to apply risk checks, and how to optimize their payment flows.
Theo Spyrides: That makes a lot of sense. And how does data contribute to this process? Once you’ve mapped everything out, how do you integrate data to ensure continuous optimization?
André Moeller: Data is everything. It’s the backbone of payments.
Let’s take EV charging as an example.
A customer drives from Germany to Spain during vacation season. They usually complete five or six charging sessions within 24 hours, passing through multiple countries—Germany, Luxembourg, France, and Spain.
But what if, in one day, a customer completes charging sessions in Germany, the UK, Romania, and Greece? That’s highly unusual and likely fraudulent.
Data helps risk and fraud teams flag these anomalies in real-time.
Beyond fraud prevention, data is also critical for trend analysis:
- What’s the average basket size?
- How many transactions does the average customer complete per month?
- How do these numbers fluctuate based on seasonality (e.g., holiday periods vs. off-season months)?
For example, if the average charging session costs €15, but suddenly a customer starts having €55 transactions, we need to investigate:
- Was it the holiday season? If yes, then it makes sense.
- Is it off-season, like November? Then, it might be suspicious.
This level of data-driven decision-making applies to every aspect of payments—cost analysis, fraud prevention, checkout optimization, and transaction monitoring.
Data is our DNA. The blood in our veins keeps payments running smoothly and securely.
Theo Spyrides: That is music to my ears—especially since I have a maths degree! So that resonates with me.
André, that’s all we have time for today. But before we wrap up, I have one last question: If you had to advise a merchant on building their payment strategy for a new business, what would it be?
André Moeller: First and foremost—hire the right payments expert. Find someone with real experience in payments, risk, and fraud.
I’ve been in the payments industry since 2007, and I’ve seen many companies think, “Payments are easy; we can handle this ourselves.” But after six to twelve months, they realize they need someone who has done this before—someone who understands the complexities, challenges, and best practices.
The reality is there are no university degrees in payments. You can’t study this field traditionally—it’s all learning by doing. But there are experienced professionals out there who have spent years navigating payments, risk, and fraud.
So, my key advice:
- Hire the right people. Build a payments team with expertise in payments and fraud prevention—because fraud will happen, and you must be prepared.
- Think end-to-end. Map out the entire payment process, from customer onboarding to checkout, risk and fraud prevention, chargebacks,, and debt collection.
- Foster cross-functional collaboration. Payments aren’t just a finance function. Work closely with product, finance, customer care, and risk teams to design a seamless, effective payment process.
If you take this approach—hiring the right team, designing a robust process, and ensuring cross-functional alignment—you’ll set your business up for success.
Theo Spyrides: Fantastic advice! Thank you so much for sharing your insights, André. It’s been great speaking with you.
André Moeller: Thank you so much for having me!
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